Bitcoin.....

[pumpernickel]

Well Ben, here we are again. In most countries outside of the US, Bitcoin is hitting new all-time highs. This is the best currency/inflation hedge and/or savings tool out there. It's simply too versatile and dominant to be ignored.

[RunTheCourse]

There will be one more pullback to 26K, this is the moment, the bottom has been booked.

Took my hobby money and invested it in Crypto these past two years. Party time when BTC hits 80K and the alts and memes have made their run after the halving

[Bigwill832]

I got lucky as hell. Sold my house in September and gave it to my money guy who invested all of it into NVIDIA. That's when it was 418 a share. More than doubled in less than six months. I'm not upset with what I have now. :)

[pumpernickel]

I got lucky as hell. Sold my house in September and gave it to my money guy who invested all of it into NVIDIA. That's when it was 418 a share. More than doubled in less than six months. I'm not upset with what I have now. :)

Start taking some (short-term gain) profit on it. The 95 P/E just isn't sustainable.

[Reese McClain]

Any information/thoughts on Crypto?

[Anna Nikkole]

Any information/thoughts on Crypto?

I'm considering learning now. They are trying do away with the us dollar. I'm learning of some platform that are interesting. May as well join em!

[pumpernickel]

Any information/thoughts on Crypto?

What do you want to know? This thread has some info already.

[Ben Rhimene]

Any information/thoughts on Crypto?

Hey Reese.

Pump and I don't see the crypto world the same, and that's OK.

My background is as a global payments professional. I invest both wearing my corporate hat as well as on my own. My bias for both is risk averse.

My view is as follows:

Digital is the way of the future.

What does the US Government do when something becomes a "thing"? They regulate it, tax it, and control it. See securities, autos, housing, employment practices, pot, etc.

The Fed has been working on a digital Dollar.

The USD is the most stable platform in the world.

My take is Anna's comment is off-base...the dollar will be supplemented by a digital dollar. Backed by the full faith and credit of the USA. Which will make it more reliable, and acceptable, than bitcoin and other crypto. In the long-run independent US Crypto cannot compete (or will be outlawed).

Short-term? Pump and others have demonstrated you can make a ton if you buy/sell at the right time. Volatility is great for trading...at least until you're the last person getting on Enron being bought out by a white knight.

If you are OK with that legal of risk by all means play with it...but do as you would in Vegas...no more than you are willing to lose.

[pumpernickel]

The digital USD and bitcoin are not even remotely the same thing. Bitcoin is valued, as a ratio/exchange, against the dollar as is much like it is against the Yen or Euro, etc. Much like the same way your house is valued against the USD. It's just a ratio/exchange, not synonymous. Whether it's the digital dollar tracked by blockchain, a digital trace via credit/debit card, or cash from your ATM. When the digital dollar gets introduced, how does that change anything? It's no different than paying for something digitally now via cards. Just there'll be a ledger/blockchain to see mass transactions. It does not change the relationship of bitcoin against it. When the digital dollar gets introduced, how much is $1 USD worth now? Still 1 dollar, lol. The fact that's the underlying notion of the argument shows how little you actually know, it's like saying house prices now all of a sudden are going to be valued off a different metric when the digital dollar is introduced. A digital dollar= real life paper dollar. It's all the same thing.

Bitcoin is digital property, it's more akin to you buying intellectual property or patent than it is USD. It's a store of value, not a means of transaction. Per usual, Ben's completely off base with his view of 'trading' it-- I don't trade, I store it. And define short-term, been hearing that for quite sometime and we are on year 15 and I am on year 14 of owning it. Most investable assets tenure should be that 7-15 year horizon to appreciate and capitalize on gains, yet I feel for some reason the best has yet to come. Maybe because we're entering more and more mass adoption?

The digital USD, and real paper USD, is backed by absolutely nothing. And calling it the most stable platform in the world is comical; it's like saying the least fattest person in the Biggest Loser is in shape relative to their peers. You're right, but it's kind of a farce. The most stable platform to invest in the world is a hard asset in the least controlling & least regulated countries-- America, Switzerland, Monaco, or an in universal, non-centralized form. Go find out where there is a singular asset that is in the latter form. I'll give you a hint-- there's only one.

America cannot ban bitcoin-- they can regulate, tax, and control the underlying exchanges and have already done that see binance & FTX. But at this point, they cannot ban it and even previously viewed it as just what I aforementioned-- digital property in the eyes of our lovely IRS. There's no such thing as "US Crypto", it's simply crypto as it is global. Then there's bitcoin, go check the instruments made for bitcoin to have it exposed into portfolios. It's undeniable at this time with global rates as high as possible, that a country with deep currency risk will adopt it as a reserve asset besides El Salvador. I suspect Egypt, but maybe Russia.

The only point I do agree with-- do not invest more than you can afford to lose. But that applies with real estate, stocks, bonds or other fixed income, etc., so that's general recommendation. This thread, in itself, should give you a lot of color on it. It's been a long time coming with ups & downs, yet the prevailing arguments haven't changed.

[Reese McClain]

Well I have a lot reading and research to do.
Thank you both taking time to assist me. It's very much appreciated.

[Ben Rhimene]

The digital USD and bitcoin are not even remotely the same thing. Bitcoin is valued, as a ratio/exchange, against the dollar as is much like it is against the Yen or Euro, etc.

When the digital dollar gets introduced, how does that change anything?

The digital USD, and real paper USD, is backed by absolutely nothing.

I did not claim they were the same. Bitcoin is one of the more popular cryptocurrencies. You are right: How crypto is stored and traded differs from hard currencies and sits in a digital exchange instead of a bank, wallet, or purse. But the point is not about storage differences...they are all currencies and the basic function of a currency is for it to be traded for goods or services. Currency is what moved humans away from the barter system.

Hard currency values fluctuate around the globe based on certain macroeconomic factors like relative inflation, monetary supply, etc. But within any given country the value of the currency is the same: $1=$1. Local inflation may mean it buys less, but you can always exchange your $ at a bank one for one. The USD has only been devalued 1 time, in February 1934 as part of a post-Depression change to Roosevelt's gold policy. Other countries, especially in the Third World, have had to devalue more frequently due to economic turmoil. Many of us have seen pics of post-WWI Germany when hyperinflation made the Mark nearly worthless:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...World-War.html

Once the major currencies have digital equivalents their value compared to each other will still fluctuate based on the same reasons they do now. And a digital dollar will still be the same as a paper dollar.

When that occurs where does the value of an independent crypto currency come from? They are stored in the same manner, transferred and recorded in the same way, but they don't carry the cache of official currency. What's the point in having them anymore?

The USD is backed by the Federal government...perhaps Full Faith and Credit is overly simplistic, but this article explains the concept well:

https://vaulted.com/nuggets/what-bac...states-dollar/

The government won't need to ban crypto; the masses will abandon it because the digital dollar accomplishes the same thing without the same level of risk. Current crypto currencies were certainly innovative, but in the end they will become sacrificial Guinea Pigs once official crypto is rolled out.

[pumpernickel]

I did not claim they were the same. Bitcoin is one of the more popular cryptocurrencies. You are right: How crypto is stored and traded differs from hard currencies and sits in a digital exchange instead of a bank, wallet, or purse. But the point is not about storage differences...they are all currencies and the basic function of a currency is for it to be traded for goods or services. Currency is what moved humans away from the barter system.

Hard currency values fluctuate around the globe based on certain macroeconomic factors like relative inflation, monetary supply, etc. But within any given country the value of the currency is the same: $1=$1. Local inflation may mean it buys less, but you can always exchange your $ at a bank one for one. The USD has only been devalued 1 time, in February 1934 as part of a post-Depression change to Roosevelt's gold policy. Other countries, especially in the Third World, have had to devalue more frequently due to economic turmoil. Many of us have seen pics of post-WWI Germany when hyperinflation made the Mark nearly worthless:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...World-War.html

Once the major currencies have digital equivalents their value compared to each other will still fluctuate based on the same reasons they do now. And a digital dollar will still be the same as a paper dollar.

When that occurs where does the value of an independent crypto currency come from? They are stored in the same manner, transferred and recorded in the same way, but they don't carry the cache of official currency. What's the point in having them anymore?

The USD is backed by the Federal government...perhaps Full Faith and Credit is overly simplistic, but this article explains the concept well:

https://vaulted.com/nuggets/what-bac...states-dollar/

The government won't need to ban crypto; the masses will abandon it because the digital dollar accomplishes the same thing without the same level of risk. Current crypto currencies were certainly innovative, but in the end they will become sacrificial Guinea Pigs once official crypto is rolled out.

I think you evaluating crypto/bitcoin as a currency is where we're off. It's (digital) property. The basic function of it being traded for goods or services is where it's wrong-- it's a hard asset. It has properties of currency sure, and among those properties it's vastly superior due to market timing, divisibility, portability, etc., but that's not it's best features. It does own those features though, for sure. No one is going to ditch bitcoin cause of the digital dollar, the only thing that would make people ditch bitcoin is if there's a way to untap the scarcity then it becomes useless to varying degrees.

It's more akin to a house than to hard currency. When the digital dollar gets introduced, that's not going to change or influence housing at all. Much like it won't for bitcoin. You realize bitcoin's value is actually more internationally renowned, at this point, than domestically right? The mechanism of value is the scarcity and the appeal is global digital property. 1 bitcoin is worth 1 bitcoin anywhere and everywhere, much like 1 Houston River Oaks house is worth 1 Houston River Oaks house everywhere and anywhere but the mechanism to extract value is vastly easier via BTC than real estate. 1 usd is not the same anywhere and everywhere. As exchange ratios vary, as inflation runs in other countries and in ours, and as money printing continues here or wherever else, the bitcoin arbitrage as a store of value gets exponentially more valuable. Do you see how marking BTC to the digital dollar is quite off? You have to mark it as a hard asset, but the portability & liquidity resembles a currency but even stronger.

The currency aspect is incredible though, and that hasn't even scratched the surface. For example, I have a vacation house in Croatia. I bought it using bitcoin on a Saturday. If I wanted to buy it with regular USD to Euro's to then purchase it, it would've been a massive process and expensive one with exchange ratios and fees and shit I could not close on a Saturday. So yes, I used it like a currency but that's just an extra benefit the real underlying value is having it marked as a hard asset because there's only so much of these. I likely in 7-10 years grossly overpaid for it, shit as of today I overpaid for it given the ratio. That's an excellent hedge though cause I'm still very, very long the digital property.

[Reese McClain]

Gosh dang. This is like studying for a test.

[Cc.goliath]

Damn I like this thread. Thanks for the info!

[pumpernickel]

Gosh dang. This is like studying for a test.

Not at all, its just a logic.