If someone asks you for the truth...do you give it?

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (atlcomedy @ Mar 29 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Camille, that is a sad story. Years ago I would have said "how could you be so naive!" :angry: now I&#39;ve found that people of both genders often just don&#39;t ask the right questions or believe what they want to want to believe even if all of the "clues" are right in front of them when it comes to matters of the heart.[/b]

ATL what makes you think that I was so naive and that he wasn&#39;t just a damn good liar?
I believe I did ask the right questions.
Even looking back now, I really do.
I guess the fact that things began to stop "stacking up" is why it all came to an abrupt halt within the grand total of...oh..about 5 weeks.
The sad thing is, his friends and work colleagues all knew about her..and about me.
When I ran into one of the much later they said they felt awkward about it, but they were willing to keep quiet as they felt I was a better match for him than the other woman. Huh? How is that helpful? I dunno...it&#39;s a lie that spread quickly and like wildfire. Anyway...it&#39;s a longgggggg time ago.
The point was that what appeared (to him) to be a simple lie, ended up being something that got him in a whole load of shit both legally and personally.
I think some people just get off on compliactions and drama though.

WTF...Boy George was never my fave. My best friend at the time thought he was amazing...but we were only whipper snappers back then.
Of all his songs I really dislike Karma Chameleon. What the heck radio station are you listening to that you hear this song these days? I haven&#39;t heard it played in...well...years!!!!!!!!!
I was more a Duran Duran fan :P
"Notorious" stands out in my mind as being a very powerful song in that day and age...loved it!!!!!

C xxx

[atlcomedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 29 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

.
The sad thing is, his friends and work colleagues all knew about her..and about me.[/b]

not sad....sounds like he&#39;s got some great friends....

[CivilBarrister]

C - What a great question and wonderful responses.

My take - It depends on WHO is asking the question.

I get paid for advice - so I am BRUTALLY honest with my clients; they don&#39;t pay me to pussy-foot around. And most don&#39;t pay me to dance with their answers - so I get right to the point with them.

If the person asking the question is an acquaintance, I will answer truthfully and succinctly.

Telling a fib is as much NOT saying something as it is saying something incorrectly, as in misrepresetation by omission.

YOU get paid to be dishonest (and I mean YOU as in the general Provider context, not YOU personally, of course) - seriously, Good Providers (esp HDHs) make us believe that you ACTUALLY like being with us, that we are GREAT lovers, that you don’t care we are a little heavy (LIE – we are FAT PIGS), that you like hairy backs, that Bald is Beautiful, that you came 1-2-3-10 times during the session, that you want to see us for something other than the Magic tricks (i.e., turning our Jacksons into your Jacksons). Need I go on?

So I believe we have to look at WHO asked the question.

A Loved one: There are MANY ways to answer the question.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 24 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If someone asks you a question that is a direct request for the truth...do you tell them (the truth) no matter what it is?

It doesn&#39;t matter if it&#39;s "Does my arse look big in these?" ...etc...would you tell the truth if asked?[/b]

A short list of potential answers:

NO (LIE)
Yes (Dog house for a couple of weeks)
Honey - I love your ass (avoid the question)
OH, Honey, Is this a Trick Question? (answer a question with a question for diversion)
I&#39;m sorry Honey, what did you say (Need more time to think)
Honey, is Something Bothering you? (PERFECT!)

I HATE HATE HATE having to read someone&#39;s mind and I assume no one can read my mind - so I am typically Brutally honest - but I have, from time to time, strayed.

My Ex-Wife asked me one time "Why are we Married?" My answer was a simply, PLEASE tell me the answer so we can save a couple of hours of fighting. - TRUTHFUL ANSWER! The ….discussion went a little longer (LIE, the fight/discussion when on for a LONG Time.)

If the person is someone I care for I will be very diplomatic in my answer and it will take a LOT of time building up to the answer. Trust is the key to most relationships, romantic or otherwise, and eventually the truth WILL come out. But someone I care for deserves a sincere truthful answer without me being cruel.

I will either tell the truth or tell my loved one or someone I care for. If I don’t feel comfortable talking about that at that moment, I will say so. (as in “Why are you so quiet, did I do something wrong, etc – NOT “WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN ALL NIGHT!”)

But the truth hurts. Most people KNOW the answer to the question they are asking (i.e., "Does my arse look big in these?" ).

CASE IN POINT:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 25 2009, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hey now Atl...(1) I was a good looking baby boy.....(2) I just grew up to be a ugly asshole![/b]

Brutally honest response: 1) That&#39;s got to be a LIE, 2) That&#39;s a GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT. If I looked up Ugly Asshole in the dictionary, your picture would be there.

Softer honest answer: WTF - 1)I didn&#39;t know you as a baby, so I have to take your word for it. 2) If you think so, I would not want to disagree with you.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CivilBarrister @ Mar 29 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Brutally honest response: 1) That&#39;s got to be a LIE, 2) That&#39;s a GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT. If I looked up Ugly Asshole in the dictionary, your picture would be there.[/b]

Speaking of Gross asshole&#39;s....here&#39;s a joke for ya CB :D

A man was in a bar drowning his sorrows after coming out on the losing end of a legal dispute.

After several drinks, he began complaining about the opposition&#39;s lawyer who was cooked and his own lawyer who was incompetent.

He hollered "All lawyers are assholes! Every one of &#39;em are assholes! You show me a lawyer, I&#39;ll show you an asshole!"

Then another bar patron stepped up to him and asked that he keep his opinions to himself.
"What&#39;s your problem, bud?" he grumbled, "Are you a lawyer?" "No," the patron replied, "I&#39;m an asshole."

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (atlcomedy @ Mar 29 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

not sad....sounds like he&#39;s got some great friends....[/b]

ATL, he left my contact info lying around intentionally for her to find.
He was too much of a coward to just tell her about me....which is how she was able to stalk me.
His friends weren&#39;t so "friendly" after that...and no, I didn&#39;t tell them what happened. The police did.
I could have taken legal action but it wasn&#39;t worth it to me.
They may have been friends to him, but in the end he was even lying to them and it cost him most of his friends.
People will stand by their friends, but very few will stand by someone who has unecessarily dragged them into a legal situation.
Like I said, a single lie can snowball way out of control and have dire consequences.
I&#39;m done with this story of mine now...it was just an example of when to fess up. ;)

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 29 2009, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Speaking of Gross asshole&#39;s....here&#39;s a joke for ya CB :D

A man was in a bar drowning his sorrows after coming out on the losing end of a legal dispute.

After several drinks, he began complaining about the opposition&#39;s lawyer who was cooked and his own lawyer who was incompetent.

He hollered "All lawyers are assholes! Every one of &#39;em are assholes! You show me a lawyer, I&#39;ll show you an asshole!"

Then another bar patron stepped up to him and asked that he keep his opinions to himself.
"What&#39;s your problem, bud?" he grumbled, "Are you a lawyer?" "No," the patron replied, "I&#39;m an asshole."[/b]

It&#39;s funny how different the legal system is here.
In England we have solicitors (who I believe can only represent to the crown court level) and barristers (those dudes who wear the funny grey wigs) who go way beyond Crown court level. Most people have the highest respect for the latter yet despise the former...and would be telling your joke to reinforce that :P

CoB

[GneissGuy]

This makes me think of Lazarus Long&#39;s three best ways to lie.

1) Say nothing and let them draw their own conclusions.

2) Tell them part of the truth and let them fill in the rest.

3) Tell the whole truth, but make them think you&#39;re lying.

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CivilBarrister @ Mar 29 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

YOU get paid to be dishonest (and I mean YOU as in the general Provider context, not YOU personally, of course) - seriously, Good Providers (esp HDHs) make us believe that you ACTUALLY like being with us, that we are GREAT lovers, that you don’t care we are a little heavy (LIE – we are FAT PIGS), that you like hairy backs, that Bald is Beautiful, that you came 1-2-3-10 times during the session, that you want to see us for something other than the Magic tricks (i.e., turning our Jacksons into your Jacksons). Need I go on?[/b]

Much of what you said (about being honest with clients etc and close friends) was refreshing to hear.
I agree, in a professional context you are being paid to be direct, honest and give timely responses...so get to the truth and get there quickly.

I know you said that the above is directed to the You as in general provider population but hell, I have to ask what kind of women you&#39;ve been seeing.
If I connect with you I ACTUALLY do like spending time with you. The connection can be anything from sport, to politics, to business, to hobbies to a good ole sense of humor. I am attracted to same things initially in men (that I meet in this context) as I would be meeting new friends. I dont ask that my friends be drop dead gorgeous or perfect physically because I&#39;m certainly not...and I don&#39;t ask that of suitors either. On the flip side I won&#39;t bullshit a client and tell him he&#39; s handsome if I dont think he is. I WILL however compliment him on things that make him look attractive...which could be anything from good skin/tan to the way he dresses. As for orgasms...I&#39;m under NO illusion that men know when a woman fakes it. They know without question...so I wouldn&#39;t expect to get away with it even if I had the desire. I can enjoy intimate time without having to reach a crescendo...and I&#39;m not afraid to let my "friends" know that.
I don&#39;t think for one second that I am the only woman either who approaches men in any context in this way. I wouldn&#39;t want someone to bullshit me so I don&#39;t do it back. I would be pretty mortified if someone felt as though I had been bullshitting them. If you select your partners carefully there is no need to....

[WTF]

:D <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 29 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Most people have the highest respect for the latter yet despise the former...and would be telling your joke to reinforce that :P

CoB[/b]

Me and ole CB have broke bread.....I was just yanking his chain. He&#39;s just jealous that my picture is next to &#39;ugly asshole&#39; instead of his. :D

[Ben Franklin]

I never tell the truth.... even now.... ;)

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 29 2009, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

:D


Me and ole CB have broke bread.....I was just yanking his chain. He&#39;s just jealous that my picture is next to &#39;ugly asshole&#39; instead of his. :D[/b]

My bad WTF...I thought you addressed it to CoB...that&#39;s what I get for scanning
My apologies to you both for jumping in there...(wheres the emoticon that blows kisses??)

CoB

[atlcomedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 30 2009, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

wheres the emoticon that blows kisses??)

CoB[/b]

I think that is over on ASPD.....the site that has been days away to be ready to be back on line for months now....

[Sysiphus]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 29 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quick story that I did say I would mention earlier in the thread:

I moved to the US because I met someone.
We had met several times (on his turf) before I moved here.
He met my family also. We had been invited to his home, work etc...no signs of him trying to "cover his tracks in any way."
6 weeks after my arrival, I discover that he has a GF of 20 years!!!!
Obviously, in my shock, anger and deep hurt I asked him why he hadnt told me.
He had selfishly (and wrongly) looked at the small picture of how telling me before moving here would affect our relationship.
I&#39;m looking at the bigger picture of "How the hell did you think you were going to help me build a life here (as promised) when you have both a full time career AND a full time GF?" Of course he denied it and it wasn&#39;t until I pointed out that said woman had been stalking me that I realized she must be connected to him and he needed to come clean. Such drama and bullshit...all deriving from a lie!

So the point is, that a lie affects so much more than you might initially think.[/b]

Yikes! As the one who poked you in the eye to tell the story in the first place... I suppose I should say something...

In short, your "friend&#39;s" behavior was despicable. As bad as it is to "lie" to get someone interested in you, it is exponentially worse to get someone to rearrange their whole life around the relationship in furtherance of the lie.

If it makes you feel any better, you&#39;re not alone. A good "friend" of mine (read, my high-school/early-college sweetheart... first "serious" relationship I ever was in) was the victim of a similar scam after we had gone our separate ways... and scam is the only word for it. Only in her case, the "man" (and I use that term quite loosely) in question was married. She quit her job, moved halfway around the country to be with the guy, and was MORE than ready to marry the guy before she found out the truth. She was a beautiful woman & a lovely soul who was left an absolute wreck for the experience. Took her the better part of a decade to recover & get her life back on track.

It had NOTHING to do with me... but I always felt a little guilty in that - if we had found some way to make our relationship work - that might never have happened to her. Now is that stupid & egotistical on my part? Sure...

About the only other thing I can do is apply a little symbolic logic:

All cowards are liars
NOT all liars are cowards
Ergo....

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sisyphus @ Mar 30 2009, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yikes! As the one who poked you in the eye to tell the story in the first place... I suppose I should say something...

In short, your "friend&#39;s" behavior was despicable. As bad as it is to "lie" to get someone interested in you, it is exponentially worse to get someone to rearrange their whole life around the relationship in furtherance of the lie.

If it makes you feel any better, you&#39;re not alone. A good "friend" of mine (read, my high-school/early-college sweetheart... first "serious" relationship I ever was in) was the victim of a similar scam after we had gone our separate ways... and scam is the only word for it. Only in her case, the "man" (and I use that term quite loosely) in question was married. She quit her job, moved halfway around the country to be with the guy, and was MORE than ready to marry the guy before she found out the truth. She was a beautiful woman & a lovely soul who was left an absolute wreck for the experience. Took her the better part of a decade to recover & get her life back on track.

It had NOTHING to do with me... but I always felt a little guilty in that - if we had found some way to make our relationship work - that might never have happened to her. Now is that stupid & egotistical on my part? Sure...

About the only other thing I can do is apply a little symbolic logic:

All cowards are liars
NOT all liars are cowards
Ergo....[/b]

I&#39;m so sorry that happened to your friend.
I understand the devastation because simply put, it destroys your faith in basic humanity.
It takes the love of a great family and some fantastic friends (and of course time) to get through hurt like that.
It&#39;s funny, I was a bit touchy when ATL questioned whether I was naive earlier...because I dont really consider myself as such...but what I do think looking back is that I would NEVER have treated anyone so atrociously and in such a detached manner so I genuinely did not occur to me that anyone else would do this either...especially to someone they cared about.
As for obvious warning signs, there were no limitations on where we could go or when or where and when I could call him. There were no signs of her in his home. I think the most integrity I have ever shown was when a few days after the shit hit the fan he came to me and said he had ended things with her and wanted to be with me. I was horrified. I told him that if he could just drop someone that he had been seeing for 20 years just like that without a second look back he was not someone I wanted to be with. Bear in mind that I owed her nothing at the time because she had not only stalked me, she had told him that I had stalked her which was completely untrue. I was also alone and very new to the country so it would have been very easy to go back to him even if just for a while. I&#39;m so glad I didnt and I came to find out later that I was not the first person this happened to...they have hurt many women over a long period of time playing games with one another.
I think the most shocking thing of all (for me) is that he is in his late 40&#39;s and she is in her 50&#39;s.
I still wonder how people get to that age and behave that way.

Wow, I was done with this thread but I felt so badly for your friend Sis.
Manipulation is a form of bullying. Inside every bully is a coward. I feel for her. I bet the said man didnt struggle getting his life back on track for as long as your friend did....very very sad :(

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sisyphus @ Mar 30 2009, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Only in her case, the "man" (and I use that term quite loosely) in question was married. She quit her job, moved halfway around the country to be with the guy, and was MORE than ready to marry the guy before she found out the truth.
Ergo....[/b]

That damn PJ.... he&#39;s a sly one :P