If someone asks you for the truth...do you give it?

[atlcomedy]

I thought culture was something they put in yougurt

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rudyard K @ Mar 27 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Some differing views about lies. :D
----------------
One lie leads to another lie a wise one once did say
And you must tell another lie tomorrow for the lie you told today
The truth is always better the truth will set you free
Of the sort of guilt that those who lie live with or so &#39;twould seem to me.

&#39;Tis easy to be evasive and &#39;tis easy for to lie
But the person who tells you the truth can look you in the eye
And tell you as you should be told with them you know where you stand
People like them earn your respect and trust since about them nothing underhand.

Those who find it easy for to cheat and lie have lost their sense of fair play
What goes around always comes around they don&#39;t see it that way
They do not believe in karma and cannot see wrong in their dishonesty
In trustworthiness in others a weakness they only see.

One lie leads to another lie and some for financial gain
Will cause hardship to others and how can one explain
How some people can cheat and lie and not feel any guilt or shame
But Humanity is made of all kinds of people and no two are the same.
----------------
If to save yourself from serious injury or death to lie is not a shame
For that&#39;s self preservation and for that none you should blame
With someone pointing a loaded gun at you then your life you will save
Not to lie at such a time more suicidal than brave
To lie to save your life does seem okay
For who would wish to die in such a violent way
And what use is hero status to a dead woman or man
The idea is to live for as long as you can
At such a time to be brave is suicidal why should one wish to die
There&#39;s a time for truth and there&#39;s a time for to lie
And to lie on such an occasion could never be wrong
For to embrace life is a gift of the strong
When lying does save your life then to lie is okay
And there is a time to lie despite what some might say.
-----------------
What exactly is a lie?
And who exactly do we lie to?
A lie is supposedly something hurtful
And anyone can lie to you

Yet it seems almost obvious
That we can never tell the truth
It&#39;s almost like a career
Like those guys who work the sales booth

They lie right between their teeth
And they can actually look you in the eye
And say what they want
Without ever sounding sly

Is it really that easy to do?
Can it really be done so fast?
Well I believe it is easy
If it doesn&#39;t leave a blast

Lying is an art
One that is easy to nurture
It is suppose to eat at your concious
It&#39;s suppose to be torture

But that&#39;s only if you lie
To someone you don&#39;t really know
But what if you lie to someone
And they took it as a blow

I mean, for instance, your best friend
Someone who is always there
Who always tries to protect you
No matter what burdens you bear

I mean, is it wrong if you lie to her?
Without a reason of ever doing so?
Or is the fact that you are trying to protect yourself
Good enough reason to just let it go?

I don&#39;t know what it is
But now I&#39;m starting to think
Since now it&#39;s confirmed that you have done it before
Will you do it again? Lying to me without so much as a wink or a blink?

I hold you in such high esteem
I look out for you no matter what
So a little advice to keep our friendship intact
Next time you want to lie to me, Just keep your mouth SHUT![/b]

I read it all RK...and thank you for sharing those rhymes.
I totally agree with the second one that you shouldn&#39;t tell the truth if your life is at stake..I mean really I do.
This whole concept of being a martyr is a bit narcissistic to little &#39;ole me.

Ok bed for me..it&#39;s been a longgggg day!

Kisses and night all

C xxx

[Sysiphus]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 27 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I&#39;m lying for my popularity. Will ya still vote for me?[/b]

That implies I was EVER willing to do so... :P

[WTF]

A thought...

There sure were allot of people that did not care for Clinton&#39;s lie....who do not mind lying to save their own ass.

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 28 2009, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A thought...

There sure were allot of people that did not care for Clinton&#39;s lie....who do not mind lying to save their own ass.[/b]

Are we talking about the "I did NOT have sex with "that" woman?" lie?
Not to belittle what happened there but in England we were saying "Jesus, I wish that&#39;s all we wanted to string our politicians up for" lol.
No-one could quite get their head round the fact that it was ML though. I mean, he was a powerful guy, he could have had anyone (&#39;cept me lol)...why her?
Convenience? Power?

C

[Rudyard K]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 28 2009, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

No-one could quite get their head round the fact that it was ML though. I mean, he was a powerful guy, he could have had anyone (&#39;cept me lol)...why her?
Convenience? Power?[/b]

Probably more to do with opportunity. You got to think that if you are the POTUS, it is hard to come up with many opportunities that are not going to be a bit more indiscreet than you are comfortable with.

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rudyard K @ Mar 28 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Probably more to do with opportunity. You got to think that if you are the POTUS, it is hard to come up with many opportunities that are not going to be a bit more indiscreet than you are comfortable with.[/b]

Dat was sneaky though...that whole keeping the dress thing.
He would have been better off sending her home in her birthday suit lol.

[Rudyard K]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 28 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Dat was sneaky though...that whole keeping the dress thing.
He would have been better off sending her home in her birthday suit lol.[/b]

True enough!! I never did understand the dress thing. Kinky!! :D

[atlcomedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 28 2009, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Are we talking about the "I did NOT have sex with "that" woman?" lie?
Not to belittle what happened there but in England we were saying "Jesus, I wish that&#39;s all we wanted to string our politicians up for" lol.
No-one could quite get their head round the fact that it was ML though. I mean, he was a powerful guy, he could have had anyone (&#39;cept me lol)...why her?
Convenience? Power?

C[/b]

THe Clinton thing takes this down a whole nother path of the original question of to tell the truth or not & that is if your audience knows the truth, tell the truth. Don&#39;t insult us by lying or trying to skirt the issue on a technicality.

I don&#39;t really thing that many people really cared where Slick dipped his wick. I do think they didn&#39;t like him insulting our intelligence by going all lawyer on us and trying to define "sexual realtions" for us.

[Kata Holos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (atlcomedy @ Mar 28 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

THe Clinton thing takes this down a whole nother path of the original question of to tell the truth or not & that is if your audience knows the truth, tell the truth. Don&#39;t insult us by lying or trying to skirt the issue on a technicality.

I don&#39;t really thing that many people really cared where Slick dipped his wick. I do think they didn&#39;t like him insulting our intelligence by going all lawyer on us and trying to define "sexual realtions" for us.[/b]

The other aspect is the seemingly common view in the US that the individual, their personal life, and their job are welded together. In many places in the world (UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc.) there is much more acceptance that an individual’s private life is private unless it directly impacts the job. That doesn’t mean that affairs and indiscretions do not get played, they do. But they tend to fall off the radar very quickly.

This is evident not only in the reporting of activities in the news but is profoundly evident in humour.

Recall the Australian Cabinet Minister who was caught dancing in a strip club, handcuffed to a pole with his pants down around his ankles. When he was confronted by both Australian media and in the house he was asked to explain what he learned from the experience. He said always wear clean underwear and never go drinking with Canadian and Icelandic fisherman. While it made for a few days entertainment, it didn’t lead to a scandal.

In Canada (I am Canadian) there are three national current events/news/satire TV programs; The Rick Mercer Report, This Hour has 22 Minutes, and The Royal Canadian Air Farce (which ended its 35 year run this past December). A key element of each week’s segment is some piece that hi-lights the private person vs. the public persona. Examples:
- spending an “overnight” with the Prime Minister and his family, the Prime Minister makes the TV host lunch,
- while interviewing the Leader of the Opposition discussing the similarities between a proposed coalition of the opposition parties to a threesome,
- having Elizabeth May (the leader of the Canadian Green Party) cut a tree down with a chainsaw
- satirizing the mannerisms of various political leaders with them participating in the scene
- and it’s not just politicians, Pierre Berton, a famous author of fiction and Canadian history, doing a piece on the proper way to roll a joint
- Geddy Lee on proper tobogganing technique

All of these point to the acceptance of famous people as just ordinary folks outside of their “job”.

There are many other examples, but the point is this is a brand of humour that while it exists in the US, it doesn’t include the public figure directly on current sensitive issues.

[WTF]

I think the lesson learned is that when a person we do not care for lies we call him a liar. When a person we like lies we call them......what do we call them? LOL My point is it does not bother us, they lied for what we think is a very reasonable reason. What I have trouble with is hypocrites...people like Newt that had extramartial affair while skewing Clinton.

[atlcomedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 29 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think the lesson learned is that when a person we do not care for lies we call him a liar. When a person we like lies we call them......what do we call them? LOL My point is it does not bother us, they lied for what we think is a very reasonable reason. What I have trouble with is hypocrites...people like Newt that had extramartial affair while skewing Clinton.[/b]

Agree on the hypocrites like Newt (& Spitzer)

Agree with the notion that the general population is more willing to forgive public figures they like

Me personally, it isn&#39;t about like or dislike, & I could care less where Bill spreads his seed, it is that he insults my intelligence by continuing to lie after he&#39;s caught.

Very similar to Pete Rose and gambling. Pete, we love you and will forgive you, just quit lying to us......

[Camille]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 29 2009, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think the lesson learned is that when a person we do not care for lies we call him a liar. When a person we like lies we call them......what do we call them? LOL[/b]

Hmmmm....I think it&#39;s a tad different to that WTF.
I think it&#39;s more about whether the lie makes them appear to be a bully or a coward that shapes our thoughts of them.

Quick story that I did say I would mention earlier in the thread:

I moved to the US because I met someone.
We had met several times (on his turf) before I moved here.
He met my family also. We had been invited to his home, work etc...no signs of him trying to "cover his tracks in any way."
6 weeks after my arrival, I discover that he has a GF of 20 years!!!!
Obviously, in my shock, anger and deep hurt I asked him why he hadnt told me.
He had selfishly (and wrongly) looked at the small picture of how telling me before moving here would affect our relationship.
I&#39;m looking at the bigger picture of "How the hell did you think you were going to help me build a life here (as promised) when you have both a full time career AND a full time GF?" Of course he denied it and it wasn&#39;t until I pointed out that said woman had been stalking me that I realized she must be connected to him and he needed to come clean. Such drama and bullshit...all deriving from a lie!

So the point is, that a lie affects so much more than you might initially think.
Usually when someone is telling a lie they are looking at a much smaller picture than the one being deceived looks at.

You are right though, we all lie, but lying when confronted (as he did) is insulting and well...lots of other things that I can&#39;t put into words right now
I would have had a lot more respect for him had he come clean...and yes, I might have still moved here.
Men are from Mars, women are from Venus though my male friends (in the UK) tell me my thought process is much more Mars than Venus which they say confuses men who are programmed to read between the lines and try and figure women out. :blink: <----I love that face lol.

Happy Sunday all!!!!!!!!

[atlcomedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 29 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hmmmm....I think it&#39;s a tad different to that WTF.
I think it&#39;s more about whether the lie makes them appear to be a bully or a coward that shapes our thoughts of them.

Quick story that I did say I would mention earlier in the thread:

I moved to the US because I met someone.
We had met several times (on his turf) before I moved here.
He met my family also. We had been invited to his home, work etc...no signs of him trying to "cover his tracks in any way."
6 weeks after my arrival, I discover that he has a GF of 20 years!!!!
Obviously, in my shock, anger and deep hurt I asked him why he hadnt told me.
He had selfishly (and wrongly) looked at the small picture of how telling me before moving here would affect our relationship.
I&#39;m looking at the bigger picture of "How the hell did you think you were going to help me build a life here (as promised) when you have both a full time career AND a full time GF?" Of course he denied it and it wasn&#39;t until I pointed out that said woman had been stalking me that I realized she must be connected to him and he needed to come clean. Such drama and bullshit...all deriving from a lie!

So the point is, that a lie affects so much more than you might initially think.
Usually when someone is telling a lie they are looking at a much smaller picture than the one being deceived looks at.

You are right though, we all lie, but lying when confronted (as he did) is insulting and well...lots of other things that I can&#39;t put into words right now
I would have had a lot more respect for him had he come clean...and yes, I might have still moved here.
Men are from Mars, women are from Venus though my male friends (in the UK) tell me my thought process is much more Mars than Venus which they say confuses men who are programmed to read between the lines and try and figure women out. :blink: <----I love that face lol.

Happy Sunday all!!!!!!!![/b]

Camille, that is a sad story. Years ago I would have said "how could you be so naive!" :angry: now I&#39;ve found that people of both genders often just don&#39;t ask the right questions or believe what they want to want to believe even if all of the "clues" are right in front of them when it comes to matters of the heart.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 29 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hmmmm....I think it&#39;s a tad different to that WTF.
I think it&#39;s more about whether the lie makes them appear to be a bully or a coward that shapes our thoughts of them.[/b]

One of us is probably lying anyway! :P



Now I&#39;m off to ride the motorcycle....though I&#39;d rather be playing golf in Mexico. Swear on Ansley life, cross my heartless heart!

I think of this song every time I say your name Camille, swear to god. You like Boy Georgie??


Desert loving in your eyes all the way.
If I listened to your lies would you say
I&#39;m a man (a man) without conviction,
I&#39;m a man (a man) who doesn&#39;t know
how to sell (to sell) a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.