A Catch-22

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DEAR _JOHN @ Feb 21 2009, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It was really nice to have a log chat with Blowpop who has been in the hobby as long or longer than I have. We shared some of the same thoughts on where the hobby has gone since the start of these hobby boards.[/b]

This statement got me to thinking...well I&#39;ve actually thought about it long and hard for the last eight years.

Where did we think the hobby was headed what with us giving LE the person , place and description of every little thing we do. Does any other business that is on the wrong side of the law have it own board that anybody can access that tells as much information? I would not even bring this subject up on the p. This seems a tad more secure but who knows. Think about it we give LE all they need to know ...we do everything but make the bust. I do not have a solution but I sure as hell know we were part of the demise.

Are therre any dope smokers out there that post where to get the best for the best price...who to contact yadayada? Tell me WTF we were thinking?

Thoughts...

[metal_head]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Feb 21 2009, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

This statement got me to thinking...well I&#39;ve actually thought about it long and hard for the last eight years.

Where did we think the hobby was headed what with us giving LE the person , place and description of every little thing we do. Does any other business that is on the wrong side of the law have it own board that anybody can access that tells as much information? I would not even bring this subject up on the p. This seems a tad more secure but who knows. Think about it we give LE all they need to know ...we do everything but make the bust. I do not have a solution but I sure as hell know we were part of the demise.

Are therre any dope smokers out there that post where to get the best for the best price...who to contact yadayada? Tell me WTF we were thinking?

Thoughts...[/b]

Yes, dope can be bought on the internet. Yes, other businesses on the "other side of the law" are on the internet. I was actually thinking to myself the other night about how I prefer the more "dangerous" things in life. The legality of it is why I consider it dangerous, I guess.

There are websites for many many illeagal goods and services I cannot mention per ASPD rules. (No, I&#39;m not into anything disgusting, but hey, I am Metal_Head. Think about it.) LE has taken notice to all. The internet has changed the world, and it has especially given LE a better idea of when, where, who, how, etc. This is the world of my generation. :angry:

On the plus side, we can limmit the TOFTTs, pick and choose who we see before the little head takes over, and of course providers can make sure their clients are legit and hobbiets can make sure the provider doesn&#39;t ripoff the hobbiest, as well as other many advantages.

Just wait until Big Brother puts a GPS device in all of us. <_<

[Htowner]

I have witnessed the mods doing justg the opposite when the directions or location is too specific. I am not sure if saying NW side of town or NW is all that specifc.
There are certain situations that when you think a certain intersection would be too specific ,then don&#39;t mention it. Just say west side of town or NW fwy and certain ST. I don&#39;t think that is really giving GPS coordinates.

[ck1942]

LE and the Hobby....

...have always been involved and for those who need a parallel, think "Gunsmoke" -- Marshal Dillon and "Miss Kitty" .... who was on the "other side" of the law, but, nonetheless, a trusted confidant (and maybe more, but those were "family hours" on TV).

LE (officials) know there is no easy nor "safe" way to stamp out sin nor the "trade" in sin. Sin, for definition here is the sex biz, "moonshine et al," tobacco smuggling, low level weed, etc.

So most "sin" exists not in spite of LE but more or less in conjunction or along side and there is quite often a quid pro quo in which the "sinners" may assist if not actually "service" LE.

And since the sin "customer" may often be upright and leading citizens who vocally support LE, the LE officials don&#39;t want to put up too many barriers to that support... and, indeed, LE is a business of its own.... with the priorities being the major crimes like murder, rape, robbery, etc... and their effort concentrates on those more so than on the sinners. But sinners are still targeted from time to time (squeaky wheel syndrome) especially if the sinners are singled out due to geographic location, no brothers or strip clubs next to neighborhoods or schools or churches, for example.

All that said, very unlikely in larger communities that sinning individuals or groups will be singled out unless they get extreme public attention or notice.

Sin is usually a "quiet" thing. And the more quiet the better.

Sure LE uses our blogs and websites for info .... and to keep track of the level of sin for sure...because if it exceeds whatever "norm" LE assigns, well, actioin will follow. And, of course, those LEOs who enjoy a bit of sin once in a while obviously need referents in order to enjoy those moments quietly.

imho, we exercise restraint in editing the offered location data as much for LE as we do to help the sinners keep their anonymity and security from perps who might want to rob or worse.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ck1942 @ Feb 22 2009, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Sure LE uses our blogs and websites for info .... and to keep track of the level of sin for sure...because if it exceeds whatever "norm" LE assigns, well, actioin will follow. And, of course, those LEOs who enjoy a bit of sin once in a while obviously need referents in order to enjoy those moments quietly.

imho, we exercise restraint in editing the offered location data as much for LE as we do to help the sinners keep their anonymity and security from perps who might want to rob or worse.[/b]

I&#39;m not trying to assign blame....I am just stating common sense facts.

You do not live in Houston...and in Houston, Texas there is nothing &#39;quite&#39; going on. The fact of the matter is that the explosion of this &#39;sin&#39; was in direct correlation to this board. Much like the sub prime market a culture of greed took over. There was no slow growth , my god we had organizations with their own forums. How long term thinking was that? Some in charge labeled sour grape&#39;s when questioned about this direction instead of what turned out to be legit concerns.

Were LE to start arresting the customers I would venture to guess that you view might change on reviews.

The catch-22 that I spoke of was the public nature of the experience .....anybody can read these. That includes women rights organizations that have the ear of LE especially with this admin.

My point is that we seem to have learned nothing even as another favorite escort is arrested day after day after day.

My question is how do we have two business models where one&#39;s success brings about the other&#39;s demise ( I am fully aware that there was a initial up tick for all).....

I was really just addressing what Dear John and BlowPop may have been talking about.

[Htowner]

Point well taken.
It is a decision we have to make . Sharing info is risky. We either do or do not . At this time it is riskier for the providers than hobbyst and that is by design. If you leave the hobbyists alone they would bering you more providers to arrest.
Now I do remember the forums you spoke of, before BT , and it seems very blatant now but it didn&#39;t at the time and where do you draw the line for that? It changes with time. It could very well change again as we elect the next mayor ,chief of police or whoever else the next time.

I am trying to understand what exactly is the better alternative you suggest? Change review formats, reduce the current format info or whatever it is that you think should be changed for the better.

[WTF]

Nothing can be changed for the better....the internet is the internet. ASPD seems to be very accommodating towards providers that do not care for reviews. I quoted Dear John and was just pointing out that like the old song &#39;&#39;Video Killed the Radio Star" by the The Buggles we long for something that we helped kill. That&#39;s all.

There were many factors that helped this industry fight the powers that be back in the day....Stephens and Pruitt were at the top of the chart, they and Outlaw Dave pummeled Helen Huey in her fight for the three foot rule.....she would up getting killed in her bid to become mayor and Brown musta took that as a sign. With the advent of huge radio stations mergers, local personality&#39;s are a dying breed, especially any that will buck the establishment.The Houston post folded and the Chronicle just does whatever the feminist say and want. So there is not much left to fight them with....it will probably take something like this http://www.libertywatch.com/volume04...ovgonewild.php or some local channel to do a expose on how and what vice does.

We have basically come full circle....where you almost have to know somebody to vouch for you before you can get laid. Funny how it always comes back to the basics. That has put some equilibrium into the business, some think that good anothers not so.

[Htowner]

Yes ,thanks to Clear Water , the majority of our stations are robotic now and very similar to the state radios and government broadcasting overseas where one point of view dominates. Not much capitalism left when monopoly is the order.
The full circle does make sense. Much like any other tool, internet could have cut its own throat in this field and back to old school info channel.
May be we abandon the review forums one day and just backchannel and PM for info as many are doing with their private stash ,as we speak B)

[DEAR _JOHN]

Dear John and Blowpop were addressing some subjects that only old timers who started in ASPD before 2002 would understand.

First of all, WTF made a great point about how things have come full circle. I still won&#39;t see a provider for the first time and take one for the team. I did that numerous times in the first couple of years, but not now.

What BP and I were discussing is how sad it was that people who were friends and attended socials together now a days hate each other with a passion. We discussed more than that, but it may have been a &#39;between you and I&#39; type of discussion. If BP wishes to add more to this post, it is fine by me. One thing we did not discuss is LE and the hobby.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DEAR _JOHN @ Feb 22 2009, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What BP and I were discussing is how sad it was that people who were friends and attended socials together now a days hate each other with a passion. We discussed more than that, but it may have been a &#39;between you and I&#39; type of discussion. If BP wishes to add more to this post, it is fine by me. One thing we did not discuss is LE and the hobby.[/b]

Man I&#39;d a liked to been the fly on the wall!

The Payton Place in the hobby is natural though.....anytime you mix a little loving in with all this testosterone camps square off after choosing sides.. lol

On a serious note there is some Law that once a group get bigger than 150 it splits off to form a different tribe.

http://www.commonsenseadvice.com/hum...ex_dunbar.html

[Guest 121818-1]

I disagree that this board is responsible for the demise of the "spas" or that the rise was due to this board.

The internet provided a medium that has been filled with information and ads long before this board existed. A better question could be did the advent of "free
advertising via the internet lead to blatant disregard of discretion by the spa owners.

Of course sites like this and there were others before this one helped to weed out the poor performing places or relegate them to lower tier places to avoid.

I could get into a long discussion about the old days and the limits due to word of mouth information and having or knowing someone with the right phone numbers or addresses (no cell phones or internet back then). The obvious is that with the advent of the internet, advertisement and the free exchange of of information has led to easier access and variety. Unfortunately you would have to have everyone not share any information to prevent the wrong eyes from seeing it. The demise may only be in the "walk-in" places that risk being busted by not having a method to screen the clients.
I would IMHO blame the demise more so on LE and their ability to get naked and do the deed if needed to make the case. If you live in Houston and want that changed I suggest you work to get people elected that will go after serious crime and put vice on the back burner.

[ck1942]

Some interesting discussion above and another 2 of my common cents...

The Internet is not the Houston Chronicle or the alternative weekly -- nor is it the Yellow Pages -- in which blatant print ads can slap reads/lookers in the face -- because the newspapers are served up on your doorstep or driveway or in little self servie boxes all over town.

To find out what is going on on the &#39;net requires a coputer, an ISP, and a browser pointed to Google, etc.

Despite the argument that sponsored forums at aspd caused the spa busts of Black Tuesday....

nor is the &#39;net nor is ASPD as much slap in the face as a public visible from the street SPA!

imho, the neighbors of those businesses were an initial contributor to their downfall. Squeaky wheels get liberal applications of official grease.

Yes, the sponsored forums may have shown or demonstrate the extent of the spa biz... but any of that would be very ancillary to the street locations, the streams of ladies and customers going in and out... etc.

You might as well blame the socials for the demise of the spas....because certainly such gatherings also demonstrated the extent and the organization of the trade.

We can lay blame wherever we choose, but the fact of the matter is that

-- the sex biz is not going away.

-- officialdom likely will never mount a full court press to try to make it go away, but it will on occasion try to make a dent in the traffic.

-- as for fave providers getting popped.... well, imho, those who don&#39;t screen and vouch carefully (both gals and guys) well, should expect that sh*t will definitely happen.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ck1942 @ Feb 23 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

-- as for fave providers getting popped.... well, imho, those who don&#39;t screen and vouch carefully (both gals and guys) well, should expect that sh*t will definitely happen.[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Feb 22 2009, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We have basically come full circle....where you almost have to know somebody to vouch for you before you can get laid. Funny how it always comes back to the basics. That has put some equilibrium into the business, some think that good anothers not so.[/b]

As much as you might hate it....It sure looks like we just said the same thing.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ck1942 @ Feb 23 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yes, the sponsored forums may have shown or demonstrate the extent of the spa biz... but any of that would be very ancillary to the street locations, the streams of ladies and customers going in and out... etc.

You might as well blame the socials for the demise of the spas....because certainly such gatherings also demonstrated the extent and the organization of the trade.

We can lay blame wherever we choose,[/b]

Again I was not trying to lay blame....but you would have to be blind to see that internet advertising was the major factor in implosion of those business being located on every street corner. Social&#39;s can hardly be compared to that force...a garthing of maybe a hundred people as opposed to the exposure to millions.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 23 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I disagree that this board is responsible for the demise of the "spas" or that the rise was due to this board.[/b]

In Houston???? Are you serious? I will not attempt to inform you on a public board of just how wrong you are in this regard. The rest of your post is also chalked full of hole&#39;s. For instance if a cop has the "ability to get naked and do the deed if needed to make the case" as you describe what can one do in screening to prevent that? You do realize that LE has very credible alias&#39;s, do you not. Now with a credible alias to get in the door to one provider and she provides a recommendation after he has the "ability to get naked and do the deed if needed to make the case" what in fact can prevent them from busting the best screening provider? LE see&#39;s one lady and does not bust her and she provides recommendations to other ladies. Are you now starting to see how it has come full circle? Where one almopst needs a personal vouch....and even then who knows who hasn&#39;t rolled over to save their ass.

All I was tring to do was make a simple point.....a point that in Houston things are tough. All of us may have contributed to the problem and not to continue to make incorrect assumptions. My guess this is one subject that I may be better versed than the average bear or moderator(s).


May I recommend a tool that may help.....a alert section where in fact posts a truly anonymous not alerts on the ladies but on vice and their descriptions, names and the like. It needs to be anonymous to prevent ...well it needs to be anonymous. A busted lady needs to be able to freely post without fear of retaliation from LE while she has a case pending.

[rippinup]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 23 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I disagree that this board is responsible for the demise of the "spas" or that the rise was due to this board.

The internet provided a medium that has been filled with information and ads long before this board existed. A better question could be did the advent of "free
advertising via the internet lead to blatant disregard of discretion by the spa owners.[/b]

Shoot, up here in the Dallas area, a couple of years ago there was a Spa that even advertised regularly on the radio. The ads ran for several months before a television station decided to run an expose on it. Only then did LE crack down on them. But come on, what the heck was going on inside the pea brains there. At least on the internet, you have to sort of being looking for this type of activity to run across it. But on commercial radio????

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rippinup @ Feb 23 2009, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

At least on the internet, you have to sort of being looking for this type of activity to run across it. But on commercial radio????[/b]

Well in Houston they (LE) are looking for it! lol