Needing some advice...

Hello lovelies!

I am needing some serious advice about a special friend of mine who has been a long standing client.

Recently, this person has begun replacing my donations with gifts and has demanded and harrassed me for extra time, when he is not even meeting his standard financial obligation. I believe there are great things that can come from contractual relationships as they allow people to open up to a completely objective third party about their lives. However, this gentleman has crossed the boundaries of what I am able to provide and continues to push forward. I am receiving many emotional emails daily and am worried about how this will all play out.

My question is: How do you handle a friend who is not respecting the boundaries you so clearly set?

PM me for more info if you need it. Advice is greatly appreciated!

There are a number of great threads & discussions on ASPD about this very topic.......oops....ASPD no longer exists....but I'm sure it will be back any day now....LOL

Bottom line, once you are sure it is not just a simple miscommunication re: donation you need to have a candid discussion. The whole email thing suggests he may have developed an unhealthy attachment. You may want to quit seeing him period.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (atlcomedy @ Mar 29 2009, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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There are a number of great threads & discussions on ASPD about this very topic.......oops....ASPD no longer exists....but I&#39;m sure it will be back any day now....LOL

Bottom line, once you are sure it is not just a simple miscommunication re: donation you need to have a candid discussion. The whole email thing suggests he may have developed an unhealthy attachment. You may want to quit seeing him period.[/b]

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Thanks for the advice. Many candid conversations were had. My fear, as he is an active poster on another board, is that he will retaliate by trying to ruin my reputation. This is all so ridiculous but it gives me stress nonetheless.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 29 2009, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Thanks for the advice. Many candid conversations were had. My fear, as he is an active poster on another board, is that he will retaliate by trying to ruin my reputation. This is all so ridiculous but it gives me stress nonetheless.[/b]

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Cut him loose. A lot of guys are all talk no walk (hey, Camille -- add that to your list of phrases on the other thread). I actually wouldn&#39;t stress too much about it.

Audra,
You are right to be concerned. I helped a provider that I was also close freinds with through the same thing years ago. It got kinda ugly. I&#39;m sure you have told him this is a business and not a dating service etc. I wouldn&#39;t cut him loose cold turkey that may trigger a bad reaction. I would get in touch with the mods on any boards you&#39;re on and tell them what&#39;s going on. I&#39;m sure they will step in if he starts posting BS about you. I cam pm you my experience if you like....in any case step lightly...BYD

Is this not the peril many ladies court who profess an emotional connection with their ....I&#39;ll use the word &#39;patrons&#39; instead of clients? I am not saying this about your particular situation but I have been skewered on here for trying to inject some reality that this is just a trumped up acting class. A class where either party can yell "Cut, that a wrap&#39;&#39; at any time. The ladies who talk about their &#39;patrons&#39; in such loving glowing terms are sometimes then surprised at this line crossing behavior.

My advice is to tell him exactly what is on your mind....that includes not playing any games by trying to squeeze him for more financial support. You have a person in a bad emotional state, who may agree to anything to continue to see you. That would not be wise on your part. You can sever the relationship with this person completely.......or at least until he has come back to his senses. I then would do a complete assessment on my part in how I missed the sign&#39;s.... or my part in maybe leading him to think this is not a BUSINESS transaction.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 30 2009, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Is this not the peril many ladies court who profess an emotional connection with their ....I&#39;ll use the word &#39;patrons&#39; instead of clients? I am not saying this about your particular situation but I have been skewered on here for trying to inject some reality that this is just a trumped up acting class. A class where either party can yell
"Cut, that a wrap&#39;&#39; at any time. The ladies who talk about their &#39;patrons&#39; in such loving glowing terms are sometimes then surprised at this line crossing behavior.[/b]

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Heaven forbid you inject reality or common sense around here....

What cracks me up are the women that advertise an experience "so good you&#39;ll never want to leave" or something to that effect and then when they actually deliver on their promise wonder why their &#39;patron&#39; has developed attachment issues......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 29 2009, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Hello lovelies!

I am needing some serious advice about a special friend of mine who has been a long standing client.

Recently, this person has begun replacing my donations with gifts and has demanded and harrassed me for extra time, when he is not even meeting his standard financial obligation. I believe there are great things that can come from contractual relationships as they allow people to open up to a completely objective third party about their lives. However, this gentleman has crossed the boundaries of what I am able to provide and continues to push forward. I am receiving many emotional emails daily and am worried about how this will all play out.

My question is: How do you handle a friend who is not respecting the boundaries you so clearly set?

PM me for more info if you need it. Advice is greatly appreciated![/b]

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The problem here is that you are insisting on "contract" not "life philosophy". If he has grown fond of you, discussing things in business terms will be insulting to him. These discussions can be had in a different aura. However, if he is unbalanced, no matter how you approach him, nothing will change.

Asides from attraction and financial comfort, the special ones need to be chosen based on psychological stability. There are always clues to such things. Be careful, things can turn ugly when an insecure man can&#39;t get what he wants on his terms. Treat him with kid gloves, but stand your ground. This could very well be about him wanting a sense of power, more than it is about you.

My new advice then is to have Lauren screen for you! lol

Maybe she can train your suitors that the exchange of money for one&#39;s time/service is not a business transaction but a lifestyle choice. That sounds just like the salesman at the Bentley dealership or some high end Condo/Penthouse residence.

To be perfectly honest there is no set way to get out of these situtations. They are all different and without details from both parties it is really hard to have a handle on the best course of action. Good luck.

Audra:

You use the word stalking and the fact that someone is doing that to you worries me...greatly.
Stalkers typically have a mental disorder of one type or another from research I have read.
I&#39;m going to guess that he&#39;s not being so overt (i.e. following you, just showing up at places where you are) since you mentioned emails.
Nonetheless, unwanted emails and phonecalls, anonymous or otherwise are still something that need dealing with.
I havent really had to deal with over excessive email thing so I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t have any great advice.
If I am wrong and he is following you etc you really need to think about involving a third party (lawyer) and fairly quickly. I&#39;m not being OTT in that suggestion, so please don&#39;t brush it off as not necessary. Stalking can get out of control fairly quickly and that&#39;s why most States have some really tough laws on this type of behavior. The stalkers will downplay and justify it...but dont let him if he tries to do that. I do know how intimidating it is to feel stalked so I feel for you. Maybe that&#39;s what you need to explain to him...tell him that&#39;s how his behavior makes you feel (stalked)? I dunno, it&#39;s hard to say without knowing the gent in question...
If you need more help and support please dont be afraid to reach out.

Camille

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camille @ Mar 30 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Audra:

You use the word stalking and the fact that someone is doing that to you worries me...greatly.
Stalkers typically have a mental disorder of one type or another from research I have read.
I&#39;m going to guess that he&#39;s not being so overt (i.e. following you, just showing up at places where you are) since you mentioned emails.
Nonetheless, unwanted emails and phonecalls, anonymous or otherwise are still something that need dealing with.
I havent really had to deal with over excessive email thing so I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t have any great advice.
If I am wrong and he is following you etc you really need to think about involving a third party (lawyer) and fairly quickly. I&#39;m not being OTT in that suggestion, so please don&#39;t brush it off as not necessary. Stalking can get out of control fairly quickly and that&#39;s why most States have some really tough laws on this type of behavior. The stalkers will downplay and justify it...but dont let him if he tries to do that. I do know how intimidating it is to feel stalked so I feel for you. Maybe that&#39;s what you need to explain to him...tell him that&#39;s how his behavior makes you feel (stalked)? I dunno, it&#39;s hard to say without knowing the gent in question...
If you need more help and support please dont be afraid to reach out.

Camille[/b]

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Camille has some very good points as well as several others have mentioned, but my first suggestion of course, which I am sure that you have already done, is to not accept any future financial obligations. P4P at that point does not exist. It is very important that you handle the circumstance with kid gloves as mentioned above, all people are unique and need different courses of action to solve the problems, thing twice about your actions, and always be aware of your surroundings, its never to much to be extra careful. Talk to a lawyer and find out you rights, if you were here in Texas or Florida, then is quite easy... but NC I have no idea.

If you decide to meet, do it in public...and I would suggest having a friend somewhere near by.

I know that you probably already know all of this...but as all of us, we only want the best for your safety.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lauren Summerhill @ Mar 30 2009, 08:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Be careful, things can turn ugly when an insecure man can&#39;t get what he wants on his terms.[/b]

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I know that we are talking about a male in this topic...but I have seen the female gender in this same perspective. All based on the individual.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woody of TX @ Mar 30 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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I know that we are talking about a male in this topic...but I have seen the female gender in this same perspective. All based on the individual.[/b]

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True dat! It cut&#39;s both ways. Crazy is Crazy. Goddess or not.

Audra, I had something similar starting to develop a few years ago. Very slowly I started backing away and putting some distance between he and I. I wasn&#39;t sure how deep he was in or how far he&#39;d go. Don&#39;t be available or as available. Let his calls and email go for awhile before answering. Hopefully he will see you have other things, interests and clients that require your attention. Wean him away slowly and he may not respond as strongly. I did have to directly say "we are not going there" but after I had defused the situation a bit.

I now watch for the signs someone is getting to attached.
Good luck and be careful.
Tess

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woody of TX @ Mar 30 2009, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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If you decide to meet, do it in public...and I would suggest having a friend somewhere near by.[/b]

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It is stories like this that make me evaluate the overall security in place in my life: home, office, garages/lots I regularly park my car etc. A lot of us, including many guys, have pissed off a lot of people fairly or unfairly over the course of our professional lives.

Someone else in this thread suggested going to the authorities under stalker laws. I&#39;m not sure this situation has reached that level, but assuming it had, unfortunately given the nature of this business, I think a lot of people would be afraid to go to the authorities for fear it would "out" their involvement in "the hobby"

Seperately that is why so many "cash &#39;n dash" type scams work. Not many guys are going to head down to the police station and file a report claiming they gave an escort a couple hundred bucks and she ran out of the hotel room as soon as paid.......

Hello all!

I appreciate the advice from everyone and all the PM&#39;s I got on the topic. This guy is ridiculous and has stated that he could ruin my good reputation. Today he sent several emails about getting out of the hobby all together after I have "broken" his heart. Hopefully the problem will take care of itself. I&#39;m keeping my fingers crossed... and sleeping with my eyes open. LOL.


Thanks again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 29 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Hello lovelies!

I am needing some serious advice about a special friend of mine who has been a long standing client.

Recently, this person has begun replacing my donations with gifts and has demanded and harrassed me for extra time, when he is not even meeting his standard financial obligation. I believe there are great things that can come from contractual relationships as they allow people to open up to a completely objective third party about their lives. However, this gentleman has crossed the boundaries of what I am able to provide and continues to push forward. I am receiving many emotional emails daily and am worried about how this will all play out.

My question is: How do you handle a friend who is not respecting the boundaries you so clearly set?

PM me for more info if you need it. Advice is greatly appreciated![/b]

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I wasn&#39;t clear if the floor was open to us all. But I was struck by:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 29 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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this person has begun replacing my donations with gifts[/b]

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I read this to mean it has happened more than once. I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but I can&#39;t help but wonder if the problem got noticeably worse AFTER this happened the first time. If I&#39;ve read the post correctly AND you don&#39;t mind answering, how did you respond the first time it happened???

It seems to me that the initial occurrence is where the gentleman needs to be reminded of the boundaries & the expectations set. Anything short of that will be taken as tacit agreement... especially by a twisted mind...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sisyphus @ Mar 30 2009, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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It seems to me that the initial occurrence is where the gentleman needs to be reminded of the boundaries & the expectations set. Anything short of that will be taken as tacit agreement... especially by a twisted mind...[/b]

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Sounds like my man Sisy speaks from experience! What ya leave her Sisy? A box of Chocolate&#39;s....dance lessons for two ..... a promise ring! lol

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WTF @ Mar 30 2009, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Sounds like my man Sisy speaks from experience! What ya leave her Sisy? A box of Chocolate&#39;s....dance lessons for two ..... a promise ring! lol[/b]

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:lol:
I left a PROMISE not to come back!!!

It&#39;s HER fault... she&#39;d emailed that would be JUST FINE with her...

I KNOW what she REALLY meant!!! :P

The first time he presented gifts, he also presented the donation and I accepted them. Then he began cutting the donation by $50 each time and replacing it with gifts, which I reminded him was not acceptable and he took horrendous offense. I am at a loss as to what to do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 29 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Hello lovelies!

I am needing some serious advice about a special friend of mine who has been a long standing client.

Recently, this person has begun replacing my donations with gifts and has demanded and harrassed me for extra time, when he is not even meeting his standard financial obligation. I believe there are great things that can come from contractual relationships as they allow people to open up to a completely objective third party about their lives. However, this gentleman has crossed the boundaries of what I am able to provide and continues to push forward. I am receiving many emotional emails daily and am worried about how this will all play out.

My question is: How do you handle a friend who is not respecting the boundaries you so clearly set?

PM me for more info if you need it. Advice is greatly appreciated![/b]

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Audra, because he does not respect your boundaries, he&#39;s not truly a friend. Please don&#39;t waste any more time with this person, and ask him to stop contacting you. You must, you must, you must put an end to this relationship before he becomes more obsessed and possibly a danger.


Good luck!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 31 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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The first time he presented gifts, he also presented the donation and I accepted them. Then he began cutting the donation by $50 each time and replacing it with gifts, which I reminded him was not acceptable and he took horrendous offense. I am at a loss as to what to do.[/b]

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The moment that he got as you mentioned "horrendous offense" this was the moment to stop the relationship, he was at this point showing his true substance of himself, lack of control of his anger.


I am sort of confused and maybe I overlooked something, are we talking a monthly commitment et al example only $xxx a month and you see him x number days a month for x number hours?

or

Is this a non-monthly commitment and he randomly calls you for you company?

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Either way just shut in down and move on, but with the monthly commitment if he has paid you upfront, then you need to allocate the number in monies and sent the remaining back to him some how, this will tell him that its not about the monies, you just don&#39;t want him in your life. He can&#39;t use that against you.

I know that you are worried about your reputation.....who isn&#39;t but you have to decide which is the most important at this point, your safety, your inter soul, and your ability to survive. As mentioned contact the mods of the board that you were talking about and explain what has happen, being very professional when doing so and you will get the help that you seek.

What steps have you taken since you have asked recommendations here on HDH?

Of course you not have to answer anything here if you don&#39;t want to....that&#39;s your right.

Damn Woody I didn&#39;t know it was Counselor Woody! Take the fifth Audra......

Beside&#39;s we already have our reformed resident stalker Sisyphus on it ....


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 31 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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The first time he presented gifts, he also presented the donation and I accepted them. Then he began cutting the donation by $50 each time and replacing it with gifts, which I reminded him was not acceptable and he took horrendous offense. I am at a loss as to what to do.[/b]

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Seriously Audra, I&#39;m with the crowd that says cut your losses. Take no more money , that is his control factor. Once you remove that he has no power . Kinda like sticking a load of Kryptonite up Superman ass !

One thing that&#39;s almost gotten lost here is his threat to "ruin your reputation." Well, that sounds like a bluff to me, but you would know better whether he&#39;s in any position at all to act on that threat. If he&#39;s married, then answer is &#39;probably not.&#39; Unless you have good reason to think he might be serious about going &#39;public&#39; (again a low probabilty I&#39;d say) then I agree with everyone else that cutting off contact is the right route to go.

A provider I knew here in SA told me of a similar situation. She was so concerned that she went to LE. They told her that as an independent, they could care less what she did and said that they&#39;d contact the guy if he persisted. He didn&#39;t, so it&#39;s hard to know what might have happened.

Wonder if anyone else knows of strategies beyond simple avoidance to shut down losers like this guy?

Good luck and be safe.

Other than just cutting the relationship off. If you know Guido, which most providers do, you might have him make a visit just to put him straight! It is a situation that needs to be addressed soon. If I was in your vicinity I&#39;d offer to help. Good Luck doll;)

Y&#39;all are so great.

Is he a monthly regular? No, he is a weekly regular - which hurts! Ah well. I take the loss as a positive step in the right direction. Hanging onto a complete fuckwit for money isn&#39;t me.


Thanks so much for all the responses!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Willn @ Mar 31 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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She was so concerned that she went to LE. They told her that as an independent, they could care less what she did and said that they&#39;d contact the guy if he persisted.[/b]

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I think that is probably consistent for most large metro areas (the distinction being with someone working out of a small town) -- as long as you run your business discreetly they aren&#39;t going after you. They do also have something called burden of proof, making you more trouble to prosecute than you are worth. That said if you (pun intended) land in their lap, the&#39;ll prosecute.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 31 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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he is a weekly regular - which hurts! Ah well. I take the loss as a positive step in the right direction. Hanging onto a complete fuckwit for money isn&#39;t me.[/b]

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He doesn&#39;t pay, but he is a regular customer. Thats funny.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pjorourke @ Mar 31 2009, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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He doesn&#39;t pay, but he is a regular customer. Thats funny.[/b]

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LOL.... NO. He doesn&#39;t pay, and is NO LONGER a customer. Just a stalker.

Audra,
I&#39;m so sad for you that you&#39;re faced with a stalker situation. I&#39;ve been there and it can be really scary. The only advice I have for you is if he&#39;s physically stalking you and there&#39;s any sort of methodology to it, find a way to have a third party witness it or video tape it. You&#39;re word won&#39;t amount to squat if he has someone willing to give him a alibi. In my case, I was at my incall and watched him through the peephole attempting to break in. When I called the police to report him, they checked with his work and found that he was on the clock there (left himself &#39;punched in&#39; while he was trying to break in). Without a third part witness, that stupid time clock was sufficient alibi for him and made the cops totally disregard my eye-witness account. For 2 years afterward he would vandalize my car, type letters telling me he was going to cut my face ear-to-ear or telling me what my child wore to school that day, and once he poured motor oil over my front door and lit it on fire (I lived on the 3rd floor and would have had to jump off the balconey had neighbors not seen it and called the fire department). He also broke into my mailbox and stole bank/credit card records so then he had my real name and outed me to anyone who would listen. Even after seeing the letters and verifying the vandalism, the cops could/would do nothing unless I had him on video doing these things or had a witness.

And this man was the Chief Fire Marshall of a county (20 years on the job), married with 4 kids.... you&#39;d think he&#39;d have a lot to lose! While I contemplated going to his work or home to confront him, my reputation with the cops was already ruined because of his &#39;alibi&#39; and he could have ME charged with harassment! He actually tried doing just that by tapping into my land line, calling his phone repeatedly and then calling the cops to say I was harassing him. The first I knew about it was when the cops called ME and told me to stop calling HIM! I found out that anyone with a screwdriver, a $10 Walmart phone and the audacity ..... can do the exact same thing. Did it matter that I took pictures of the damaged lock on the phone box on my building? No.... I couldn&#39;t PROVE he&#39;d done that. Cops actually accused me of damaging the lock.

My point being, you need to cover your arse and be able to PROVE it&#39;s him before you go to the cops with anything.

Good luck!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 31 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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Then he began cutting the donation by $50 each time and replacing it with gifts....[/b]

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All of our clowning around notwithstanding, THIS is what I was getting at before. The SECOND time this happened, the battle is pretty much lost. Cutting him off... refusing to see him anymore is about ALL you can do at that point.

The OTHER stuff is important but not as important as your safety.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audra Baron @ Mar 31 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

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I am at a loss as to what to do.[/b]

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About the only thing I haven&#39;t seen suggested yet... if you have the type of resources necessary at your disposal... may I respectfully suggest a "blanket party" for the idiot in question. Not much risk if planned properly & sometimes the only language such a bully - and let&#39;s be clear this is what it&#39;s all about at this point - might actually understand....